Would you go Full width?

[O.D.]

There's just too many good opportunities out there for completely built full width D60's (69-70") as compared to built up 62-66" axles and am now starting to ponder the thought..

For those that have been running built up rigs with "Wider" axles, have you run into allot of hassles with the law?

I will be driving mine on the road (Albeit not allot as it is strictly a weekend toy) and so i have to take this into consideration....

 

[Kunker]

Considering the same thing and what I've read on other boards I believe that there is technically no tire coverage law in Ontario, but you do have to "control spray from the tires". Some people have a stack of tickets to show for it because of where they live, others have none. If you are going full width, I'd suggest as much backspacing as possible to bring the tires back in, and some removable flaps/flares to cover as much of the tire as you can.

How built are the 60's? If they are still on stock shafts, cut the long side down and get the inner cut and re-splined for a little narrower stance, then a C&C 14B in the rear (seriously thought about this route, but the funds aren't there for me). Lots of threads around Pirate and other sites on narrowing a housing.

 

[O.D.]

Most that i have seen are fully built (Cro-Mo's) with the brackets already welded in, ready to go.

To cut them down would mean having to reset all the bracketery, which in the end would eliminate the savings....

I have come across some nice built D60's in around the 62" mark, however you are looking at 6K for both. Full width, i routinely see sets for around 3-3.5K mark. That's a big variance....

 

[bradleyfitz]

Most that i have seen are fully built (Cro-Mo's) with the brackets already welded in, ready to go.

To cut them down would mean having to reset all the bracketery, which in the end would eliminate the savings....

I have come across some nice built D60's in around the 62" mark, however you are looking at 6K for both. Full width, i routinely see sets for around 3-3.5K mark. That's a big variance....

I would run full width on a trail truck, yes. Put H2's on it to suck it in to eliminate some of the width, depending on the wms-wms. That being said, the D30 is 60.5" ... and I would not exactly be worried about gaining a total of .75" on either side if you are looking at a D60 that is only 62".

Edit: Just re-read the posts
Yes, obviously you are not worried about the 62" one but they are expensive ... my previous comment stands, go with a large offset rim like the H2 to decrease some of the stance of the full width axle.

 

[O.D.]

I have started to read about this...

Do the H2's come in various bolt patterns or the very least common to D60's? I'd be looking at around 69-70" wms-wms on the D60's. So that would be almost 4" on each side. The tires as they sit now (12.5" wide on 8" rims ~ Don't know backspacing) on the D30, stick out about 2+ inches... So, leaving everything as is (Not counting the incorrect bolt patterns on the D60 VS my rims), i'd be sticking out almost half a foot on each side. Plus, if i go 1tons, i will surely move up to 37's or so with probably a bit of give on the width as well, say 13.5".

I absolutely would love the stance, however am quite certain the OPP would not.

 

[Root Moose]

H2 wheels are the standard GM 8 lug pattern IIRC. Wtih the money you are sinking into this machine you might as well get custom bead locks made. That way you can pick your offset and lug pattern. What's another grand at this point?

Monkey with your offsets to bring the wheels in. Maybe change out your flares for slightly wider ones.

 

[bradleyfitz]

Part of the appeal of the H2's is they can be found cheap. 5.5" bs.

H1's are also an option, at 7.5" bs. I believe the come in 8 and 12 lug bolt patterns... but there are plenty of companies (Stazworks, 406_YJ on pirate) that sell new centers to change the bolt pattern, if needed.

 

[Root Moose]

H1's are also an option, at 7.5" bs. I believe the come in 8 and 12 lug bolt patterns... but there are plenty of companies (Stazworks, 406_YJ on pirate) that sell new centers to change the bolt pattern, if needed.

I like this idea. Mock it up in cardboard to see what it looks like.

 

[O.D.]

does one not start running into steering / clearance issues when you stuff the wheels back inwards like that?

OR,

Because of the increased width, you in essence balance things out?

 

[Root Moose]

Hard to say... that's why you need to try mocking up before spending money me thinks. I'm going to speculate it more or less works out.

Don't forget that the D60 knuckle swings in a different arc compared to a D30 or D44. Probably less of an issue with a SWB Universal though. Your offset will place the arc and radius relative to your king pin inclination axis.

You can always buy the axles and then do whatever it takes to make the wheel assemblies work after the fact. It's been done before, don't get bogged down in the technical minutiae. Custom centres on H1s gives you lots of options.

 

[Kunker]

H1's may cause some interferance on the steering arms, but there are different arms available. Just do a lot of research on what you want for steering first. H2's should be fine.

 

[tlowe]

I also agree with the re-centered H1's.........

One other thing to keep in mind is that as you go up in tire size you are also going to want to increase your WB. That changes the tire coverage issue also.

 

[Kunker]

I'd say check out some of the builds on Pirate and other boards, see their width and setup, and take it from there.

39.5"s on H2's, full width 60/14B

You'd need some pretty large flares to cover the tires. Or make sure you don't drive in the rain

 

[dwcjwerfner]

Steering is an issue usually resolved by larger rims which gives you much increased inner diameter, for example my 15" rims on my truck are very close to the tie rods (maybe 1" to spare IIRC) and they are about 3.75" or 4" backspacing. What makes mine stick out so much is that they are 10" rims so that puts the outside rim at least 6" from the wheel mounting service and the Iroks stick 2" past the rim. I guessed to clear the tre's you would have to have at least a 17" rim but I am not positive and I am not about to switch my rims and tires so I stopped thinking about it. Also looking at that pic that Kunker posted you can see how the tre's are still inside the inner rim, also if you bring a big tire too far towards the frame you will end up rubbing it on full flex.

 

[Mlorint]

I have spoken to MTO Inspecters and the only thing needed is rear mud flaps to be legal, tires can stick out as far as you like with no top covering.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'd go full width, hands down. Wait, I'm in the process of that right now

For the tires/rims if going 16.5s get re-centered H1s if not, get 17s with beadlocks. Stock H1s are NFG

My 60 is 69.5 WMS-WMS PLUS 6" per side for the hub.
You want your rims to sitck out atleast to the end of the hub (drive flanges may save a bit of width but not street friendly)
You'll be looking at a minimum of 82" outside of rim width -- how's that compare to what you have now?

 

[O.D.]

I'd go full width, hands down. Wait, I'm in the process of that right now

But is your rig a trailer queen

 

[Kunker]

Exactly!! I don't think there is anyone in the club driving on larger than 36's on a regular basis. It just isn't safe!

I'd argue that it could be safe, but the cost would skyrocket to keep the build low, massive brakes, a lot of time on keeping roll and dive to a minimum, etc, etc.



What is the end goal of the Jeep? If it's to spend time building with your son, go full width and spend another season in the shop. If it's to hit the trails and have fun wheeling with your son, re-gear what you have and run it until it breaks, then look at upgrades.

I know how tempting an axle swap can be, and how you just want to go bigger and bigger. I've spent enough time reading on here and other sites that I'd love to build a tube buggy and go wild, but with my means and work schedule, I'd never see a trail that needed something that built.

I loved reading your build and seeing the progress, all the detail work, but I wouldn't have been able to go through that build and go on a couple of trails before tearing it down and starting over. Speaking of which, have you talked to your mechanic on whether or not he'd safety the Jeep after a FS axle swap?

 

[O.D.]

I'd argue that it could be safe, but the cost would skyrocket to keep the build low, massive brakes, a lot of time on keeping roll and dive to a minimum, etc, etc.

What is the end goal of the Jeep? If it's to spend time building with your son, go full width and spend another season in the shop. If it's to hit the trails and have fun wheeling with your son, re-gear what you have and run it until it breaks, then look at upgrades.

I know how tempting an axle swap can be, and how you just want to go bigger and bigger. I've spent enough time reading on here and other sites that I'd love to build a tube buggy and go wild, but with my means and work schedule, I'd never see a trail that needed something that built.

I loved reading your build and seeing the progress, all the detail work, but I wouldn't have been able to go through that build and go on a couple of trails before tearing it down and starting over. Speaking of which, have you talked to your mechanic on whether or not he'd safety the Jeep after a FS axle swap?

Based on everything I have read, the D35 is NOT going to survive if i start hammering it. I don't want to be stranded somewhere on a trail. so rather than wait till it breaks, i would rather address now. However, that is not the only reason. Since i am going to Long Arms, i have to weld new brackets to accommodate the new lift. I didn't want to weld these up on the D35 only to have it brake next season. So, i decided to upgrade the axles now.

My original intent was to try and stay as stock, (Width-wise) as possible, but upgrade the axles. However, over the past few months now, what i am seeing is that there is a decent premium to be paid if you want beefier axles and retain the narrower stance. What i have found is 60-65" wms-wms in larger axles (Really built D44's / Build D60's) are up to 75-100% more than the same in full width (68-70" wms-wms). So, this is what started this thread.

If i had the option today to go with a 65" VS 70" setup for the same price, i would take the 65" without blinking.
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I do not want to re-gear a D35. Re-gearing fr and rear, all said and done, would cost me upwards of probably $1000 if not more without even looking at some lockers.. To me, that's just pissing money away..

I also have toyed with the idea of building my own set of axles, however like you, i just don't have the time and that is why i am trying to source a set already built.

Cheers,

 

[chunkytrunks]

Like John F said. I would try and stay close to stock width as possible for street drivability. You still have lots of time before next season. Judging by hoe fast you work, keep looking for another month before you go settleing for somthing you don't want.

My 0.02