Tow Rig

[Kunker]

The wife and I are looking into buying a business, and part of deal is purchasing inventory from the US (Pennsylvania). The current owners drive down 3-4 times a year, load up a large enclosed trailer (20-25' size), and haul it all back. If we do decide to dive into this, I'd need to pick up a truck for pretty much the same thing. Unfortunately I don't have an estimate on weight at the moment, but I'll throw up a 7K number for kicks (I could be way off, but the items are pretty light)...

Please login to view full content. Log in or register now.

 

[Jimbog]

Maybe it would be better to just have your product picked up by a local trucking company. We bring part loads up out of P.A. all the time, and all over the USA. We deal with a local guy out of South Mountain. Jed Express. very good rates and service.
http://www.jedexpress.com/
Might be a cheaper way to go than a purchase of a Truck and Trailer plus your time to run down empty and back. Just a thought.

 

[Kunker]

Maybe it would be better to just have your product picked up by a local trucking company. We bring part loads up out of P.A. all the time, and all over the USA. We deal with a local guy out of South Mountain. Jed Express. very good rates and service.
http://www.jedexpress.com/
Might be a cheaper way to go than a purchase of a Truck and Trailer plus your time to run down empty and back. Just a thought.

Kinda like John mentioned, there is definitely no loading dock on either end (store or our place for storage) for unloading, and the purchases would be made at cash and carry trade shows rather than something more structured where I would think I could get a trucking company involved.

I'd also like to have a truck kicking around for odd jobs around the house, towing the Jeep, etc, but it would be primarily used for business.

 

[Jimbog]

The problem with sme shipping companies is they don't have a way to unload at this end if you don't have a loading dock, unless they have a lift gate. And at my end it is hard to deal with a gravel laneway. ( I need to sell that hoist! so I can have a loading bay.) Does Jegg do all the brokerage too? I may have to try them out.

Yes, John I think they can handle the customs brokerage not 100% sure as I use my own (Strader-Ferris) Jed has a bunch of loading docks at there site in South Mountain. You could have the bring it up and then go pick it up in South mountain Or have it dropped here at our shop in Ottawa and pick it up here.
Klunker, Yea if you are buying products direct from a trade show, it does not work to well because you have to have it out of there by the end of the show.

 

[Jam]

I dont think a 1/2 ton would be enough. Thats the thing.....

I run a 1996 GMC k2500 (6.5 turbo diesel) and shell pull anything out there. From 2 bobcats on a trailer, to tons and tons of gravel and sand on a dump trailer.

See if any of your friends are nice?

You want something that isnt going to struggle with the weight, because then youre risking breaking something. Diesel is your better option because of the torque, and some can be pretty cheap (Keep in mind, that older diesel motors go forever too...)

James

 

[Richard]

Note that the rated towing capacity on pickups is not just for the trailer but must include anything else added to the truck such as a shell, gear in the box, driver and passengers, and fuel. It adds up fast, my Chevy 1/2 ton gas was rated for 8,000 lbs and I was at the limit towing my Jeep with camping gear, tools, food, ...

That said it had no problem with that load, even did quite well crossing the Colorado mountains. Sure it slowed down on steep hills but unless you do that regularly it's an acceptable compromise to paying for a bigger truck.

If you're going to do this as a business you will have a lot to learn. You're going to need annual inspections on the truck and trailer and follow CVOR regs including keeping a log. In the eyes of the law you'll be a trucker.

 

[Kunker]

That said it had no problem with that load, even did quite well crossing the Colorado mountains. Sure it slowed down on steep hills but unless you do that regularly it's an acceptable compromise to paying for a bigger truck.

Good to know, I've been leaning towards a 5.3 GM if I do end up going 1/2 ton. Did your truck have an added cooler, or anything else? Weight distribution hitch?

If you're going to do this as a business you will have a lot to learn. You're going to need annual inspections on the truck and trailer and follow CVOR regs including keeping a log. In the eyes of the law you'll be a trucker.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, but why would I be considered a trucker? The truck/trailer wouldn't be for hire, and it could be considered personal goods, just as any club member picking up a number of shipped goods over the border, no? Guess I'll have to throw that in the "things to talk to the current owners" about.

 

[Kunker]

I dont think a 1/2 ton would be enough. Thats the thing.....

I run a 1996 GMC k2500 (6.5 turbo diesel) and shell pull anything out there. From 2 bobcats on a trailer, to tons and tons of gravel and sand on a dump trailer.

See if any of your friends are nice?

You want something that isnt going to struggle with the weight, because then youre risking breaking something. Diesel is your better option because of the torque, and some can be pretty cheap (Keep in mind, that older diesel motors go forever too...)

James

Heard too many bad things about the 6.2/6.5 family to consider it, even if a good deal is urban myths. Also, how many diesels have you seen for cheap? Average age of those cheap diesels? While the engine might run forever, transmissions don't, and bodies rust out under anything around here. Trust me, I'd love to own one, I just don't see it being worth the added maintenance bills for the occasional load I'd be hauling.

 

[Jam]

Its still going solid. All it needed was a new transmission 30k ago. (Theres 438 thousand on it...)

I guess its a hit or miss for that kind of thing?

Only thing expensive for maintenance is oil changes lol.

Well, Good luck on your ventures!

 

[Richard]

Good to know, I've been leaning towards a 5.3 GM if I do end up going 1/2 ton. Did your truck have an added cooler, or anything else? Weight distribution hitch?

It had the towing package which did include the tranny cooler, and I used a weight distribution hitch which helped with the trailer tongue rocking up and down. If you get the 5.3 make sure it has the lower gear ratio which increases towing capacity.

At the risk of asking a dumb question, but why would I be considered a trucker? The truck/trailer wouldn't be for hire, and it could be considered personal goods, just as any club member picking up a number of shipped goods over the border, no? Guess I'll have to throw that in the "things to talk to the current owners" about.

I'm not going to try to interpret the law, especially MTO's which are vague and nobody understands :banghead: But AFAIK if you use your truck/trailer for business reasons then it's commercial and that's the same as being a trucker. Doesn't mean you couldn't get away with it, just have to be careful not to get checked by a MTO officer having a bad day

 

[bradleyfitz]

One thing I would definitely not being trying to do in starting a new business, is lying to border guards about the nature of the goods you are bringing back. All it takes is ONCE and you will soon be having troubles crossing the border, be it for personal or business reasons.

 

[Kunker]

It had the towing package which did include the tranny cooler, and I used a weight distribution hitch which helped with the trailer tongue rocking up and down. If you get the 5.3 make sure it has the lower gear ratio which increases towing capacity.

I'll keep that in mind. It seems like every truck I see has the 4.8 though.

I'm not going to try to interpret the law, especially MTO's which are vague and nobody understands :banghead: But AFAIK if you use your truck/trailer for business reasons then it's commercial and that's the same as being a trucker. Doesn't mean you couldn't get away with it, just have to be careful not to get checked by a MTO officer having a bad day

True. Never had a problem with the MTO/OPP using the Suburban as a work truck, but a ladder and some tools are a lot different from a large trailer. I'll have a chat with MTO at some point just to make sure.

 

[Kunker]

One thing I would definitely not being trying to do in starting a new business, is lying to border guards about the nature of the goods you are bringing back. All it takes is ONCE and you will soon be having troubles crossing the border, be it for personal or business reasons.

Yeah, I grew up in a border town and heard the horror stories. One of the guys I work with was a trainer for us, and he basically can't travel to the US anymore thanks to a marker on his file. Not something I want to go through.

 

[Kunker]

Its still going solid. All it needed was a new transmission 30k ago. (Theres 438 thousand on it...)

I guess its a hit or miss for that kind of thing?

Only thing expensive for maintenance is oil changes lol.

Well, Good luck on your ventures!

Haven't read too much on the 6.2/6.5 as I mentioned, but my 1/2 Chevy (same body style) is on it's 3rd tranny that I know of (had to replace it within days of buying it, previous owner had just rebuilt it before that). Lots of towing threads I've been reading also say that a tranny rebuild on an auto is a given after about 150K (miles, that is).

And yeah, I DD a TDI Jetta, so I know how expensive the oil changes can be.

 

[Farm Boy]

I'm not going to try to interpret the law, especially MTO's which are vague and nobody understands :banghead: But AFAIK if you use your truck/trailer for business reasons then it's commercial and that's the same as being a trucker. Doesn't mean you couldn't get away with it, just have to be careful not to get checked by a MTO officer having a bad day

You are exactly right Richard.

I have interpreted it many times and at great lenght with MTO. You would requre commercial plates, CVOR and annual inspections -- ie you would be considered a "not for hire commercial trucker" I had to go through this when I had my gooseneck float & bobcat. The system is a PITA but you need to know it, the fines aren't worth the risk. I'd be happy to fill you in on more of the details but that'd be better over the phone -- or coffee.

I've been towing for 20 yrs, for a trailer that size and that long of haul, I'd highly reccomend a gooseneck/5th wheel trailer. You'll also want a 3/4 ton atleast -- also alot easier to find one with enough towing capacity. Price between the heavy half tons and any 3/4 ton isn't much. To me, it's worth every penny to have a diesel. Yes oil changes cost more but if you crunch all the #s it's not that bad.

:beer:

 

[Kunker]

You are exactly right Richard.

I have interpreted it many times and at great lenght with MTO. You would requre commercial plates, CVOR and annual inspections -- ie you would be considered a "not for hire commercial trucker" I had to go through this when I had my gooseneck float & bobcat. The system is a PITA but you need to know it, the fines aren't worth the risk. I'd be happy to fill you in on more of the details but that'd be better over the phone -- or coffee.

I've been towing for 20 yrs, for a trailer that size and that long of haul, I'd highly reccomend a gooseneck/5th wheel trailer. You'll also want a 3/4 ton atleast -- also alot easier to find one with enough towing capacity. Price between the heavy half tons and any 3/4 ton isn't much. To me, it's worth every penny to have a diesel. Yes oil changes cost more but if you crunch all the #s it's not that bad.

:beer:

I was hoping you'd chime in on this as I figured you'd have the most relevant experience. I'll probably take you up on the offer after we finally get to sit down with the bank and the current owners, run some numbers and see where it all sits.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Grumpy]

GM truck, 3/4 ton no less and 6.0L gas.......diesels are great when they are working......when they don't yer fucked.....and yes even having a brand new truck for only 3 weeks the engine can fuck up......(brother-in-law's experience...not good). But then again I've had a terrible diesel experience and will never own one again if I can help it.....BUT if you want diesel, Cummings in a Dodge.....engine goes forever, get an older model that has mechanical injection......problem is it's in a Dodge and they are junk.....GM, 3/4 ton no less and 6.0L gas....did I mention that already???

 

[Dirk]

you mentioned 7k payload....lbs or kg?
1 - lbs a ball hitch will do, kg 5th wheel/gooseneck for sure.
2 - Towing a trailer over 4600kg requiers a class A licence.
3 - IIRC trailer over 2800kg, which you will be, counts towards the towing vehicles weight.
4 - If the combined weight, truck + trailer + loads, is over 4500KG you are considered commercial, unless you are towing and RV or towing with an RV.
5 - if you are over 4500kg you need a yearly inspection and sticker, which means you need to keep a log book, do a daily circle check and register for a CVOR and stop at all weigh scales
6 - unless you are towing for personal use, transporting goods for resale or business use excludes you from this, you must comply with #5
7 - if you are towing for personal use you still need the inspection

here is some reading about my experiences around this: http://ovo.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=1587