Project - 2Cool4School

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Dirk

Guest
As some of you may know, I acquired John's schoolbus toterhome some time ago and am planning on rebuilding it.
First step will be repowering it. And I find myself at a fork in the road and need to decide which route to take.
For this I am soliciting input.

The two avenues I am considering are:
1- sticking with Medium duty components. This would entail an International donor truck for compatibility. Power would be from a DT466 coupled to a 10 speed. Early '90s with air brakes and bud wheels...
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Root Moose

Guest
Go big or go home. The expensive part of this project will not be the equipment, it will be the hours (to a point). Make it effortless to drive long distances... that implies going big to me.

Are there any automatic transmission options worth considering? After a long weekend or more of wheeling it might be really annoying to row the gears on a big machine like that in stop and go traffic. I don't know much about big equipment, is this a concern or just throw it in a "medium" gear and let the engine lug the machine up and down through the low speeds?

Are there any licensing or legal things to worry about regarding the scale of the two setups and/or crossing the border with this kind of vehicle? If it's classed as a motorhome I'm guessing not but still something to confirm?
 
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Dirk

Guest
I like the go big route myself....very much, and time is money. And I hate to compromise.
The class 8 conversion would be the only option for me if I and the project were in the same place. Unfortunately I am in Alberta and the project in Ontario, so I have to rely on other to help with logistics, which is tough and have to take time off work and fly home to do the actual work. Which makes the "bolt in" medium duty route very attractive.

the thought of being able to sprint of any hill puts a smile on my face, but the fuel economy of the 466 is also very appealing.

Stick vs Auto is a no brainer for me, I dislike autos and like driving manuals. Some of the reasons are that autos rob power, add complexity, create unwanted heat, especially when engine braking. For most other people I would recommend an auto, the allisson 645 (IIRC) are quite stout and lock up.

Licensing is not an issue, as it a motorhome already, no paperwork aside from title transfer required.

I agree on the body off would be alot more work and money, especially when factoring in the time off work and travel. Which makes it less appealing.

I "want" to go with option 2, but think I should settle on 1. Its a compromise, but in the end a small one, I think....hope.

Now all I need is volunteers to looks at and transport a donor to Renfrew...lol. Yeah I know, wishful thinking. :stir:
 
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Dirk

Guest
looking at donors right now:




and



both '93s in the GTA.

93 to 97 are supossedly the best years for 466s. Last years for mechanical engines and have an inline Bosch pump, best candidates for making more power for very cheap, 350+ for reasonable $ and without affecting longevity too much.
Also they are the last of the long stroke 466s, high torque, as the electronic ones have bigger bore and shorter stroke.
 
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Root Moose

Guest
Dirk. Another option would be to put another 8 in it long enough to get er home, then you have all the time, space, machinery to do it there. ( assuming that you have the space and machinery there ;-)

I have a feeling that Dirk and I are alike in hating to do things twice...

I didn't realize you weren't doing the build in AB. If it were me I'd be inclined to follow John's quoted advice above and go big.

It sounds like if you go medium duty you'll always wish you had gone big and either redo it later ($$$ and time "wasted") or you'll end up selling it to do another rig.

If it isn't where you are physically located it's going to suck having to come out here and then have to wrench to get it done instead of coming out to do other stuff. I don't know what your personal situation is... if your S.O. is out here I can see lots of friction in your future if every time you come out you spend all your time wrenching. Likewise if it is family visit type stuff. OR you won't get as much done as you expect when you come out.

 
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Dirk

Guest
That would be an option, John, just hate to do things twice.

Problems are all logistical. Bus is there and doesn't run, transport woul be horrendously expensive. Argh

Front axle weight is another consideration and the smaller engine wins out. Also I am looking into the 4x5 option, and that axle would really hate the big motor at 2200lbs+

I really do want big power...what to do, what to do. And you are right, I may always wish I'd gone that way.

And the place to buy trucks is Ontario, they are considerably cheaper there than in the west.

Equipment I have here, but no shelter, I would have to do all the work in a gravel parking lot some distance from where I am staying. At least until it runs and is legal on the road.

Lastly, my RV guy, Tim @ canadian outdoor leisure, for all the appliances, awning, propane is in Renfrew.
The back and forth is something I dread. Damn the size of our country. Lol

I lay awake at nights agonizing over this.

Dirk
 
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Root Moose

Guest
Will the tuned 466 cid be enough engine? What are the approximate torque numbers?

Can you plan your design around "elegance" versus the kitchen sink approach. For example, can you outfit the interior with high quality but light weight materials and equipment and shave a bunch of weight?

Can you configure the rear wheel lift so that it is removable and you don't have to haul it all the time even when not in use?

I'm not up on big or medium truck stuff... but between a flexible engine and drivetrain how much power do you really need?
 
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Dirk

Guest
Another though is that the DT530 and 570 are near identical to the 466, same family. This may be a future consideration for bigger power without having to redo everything.
 
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Dirk

Guest
Power with simple tuning, no expensive aftermarket parts, is 350hp and 850ft/lbs of torque.

Stock around 210 / 500, which hauls tandem dump trucks around.

They are capable o insane power, very common tractor pull engines, like 1250hp+. but for how long ofcourse...

Wet sleeve design, inflame kits around $1000. Great engines, walk all over 6bt cummins which is what slot of school busses have.

I think it will be plenty of power, just not a hot rod motorhome. :)
 
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Dirk

Guest
That's the old debate of trailer va motorhome. I am solid in the motorhome camp with this build.

I have contemplated a fifth wheel toyhauler, like a 25' fifthwheel camper mounted on a gooseneck with 15' of deck behind it. But I decided against that. The tow vehicle required would run into DOT issues and I dig the concinience of a motorhome while traveling, like fridge access, etc...
 
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Dirk

Guest
Just called about the second truck I posted above, it out, 5spd with a 2spd rear axle.

Waiting on engine and interior (dash) picks of the first one.

And about weight saving.... Yes.
I will do my best not to overbuild stuff on this project.

Roof Air is a must, unit is already ordered. :)
Especially since cab air is a very rare option on the utility trucks. Probably search for a setup later. Like the ones we have in our Trucks at work. Company mechanic does AC also. :)
 
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Dirk

Guest
I have thought about dragging it out here, repower, then drive back to have the RV stuff installed.

Was thinking about how trucks are often delivered piggyback. With kingpin under the front axle sitting on he fifth wheel of the towing truck. I wonder if that's doable. Hmmm
 
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Root Moose

Guest
Power with simple tuning, no expensive aftermarket parts, is 350hp and 850ft/lbs of torque.

Do this... be happy... it's enough of a mega project as it is.

If you can't accomplish what you want with 850 lb-ft available you are doing it wrong. ;)
 
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Dirk

Guest
That settles it, thanks. I have been arguing for this setup all along, now that I reread it.
Just needed help making up my mind.
 
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Dirk

Guest
Gathering more parts...

Have my eye on some parts off this:

Fuel Tanks
Fender mirrors
battery box
Steering column, tilting & telescopic
Seats, leather air ride
air filter housings
chrome exhaust cover :cool:
rear drive axle air suspension
gauges, suspension pressure, pyro, boost, etc...

and that moosebar and chome visor would be uber cool
 
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Dirk

Guest
for anyone not familiar with the Bus.


with my Brother in Law posing...


not the best pics...I know.

If I pickup the '93 donor, which is likely, I plan to use the newer style hood. Its more aero dynamic, like it matters, and it looks "prettier...again, like it matters. :flipoff:

Colour matching may pose problems...
 
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Farm Boy

Bought the Farm
Why not buy a running highway tractor, convert it and scrap the bus? To me it sounds like WAY less work except for the BS legality of relicensing it as motor home.
 
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Dirk

Guest
the BS legality of relicensing it as motor home.
That has a lot to do with it.

I also think I can do the bus on a reasonable budget and it's mostly there, very little fab work compared to a " from scratch" build. Especially using an IH as a donor, mostly bolt in.

I and my wife like the bus. It's ugly but kinda cool in a mad max kinda way. It also gives me a chance to build and learn before I tackle a larger project. And lastly, the logistics are in favor of this build.

But...the class 8 conversion is in the future, I am certain.
 
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