05 TJ 3.5 inch lift kit installation help needed

[bradleyfitz]

You do not need the extra inch. Stick with the 4". I used to run 36 iroks with 3.5" coils and a 1.25" body lift.
4" is enough clearance for a 33-35" tire... And if it is not (due to rubbing), I would extend the bump stops.

 

[bradleyfitz]

Also, I question the drop pitman arm. On a TJ, it is normally not required unless in the 6" lift range OR you are installing a drop bracket for the front trackbar. A drop pitman arm on a 4" lift is likely to cause bump steer, IMO.

 

[Mud Rookie]

I agree, but I am installing TB relocations brackets for both the front and rear.

Thanks for the heads up

 

[bradleyfitz]

I agree, but I am installing TB relocations brackets for both the front and rear.

Thanks for the heads up

Does the front trackbar you are getting come with a drop bracket? If so, by getting a trackbar that doesn't require a drop bracket to mount it would allow you to eliminate the drop pitman arm from your build.

What lift kit are you getting? Most of them do not come with drop a drop bracket for the front adjustable trackbar. The only one I can think of off hand is rough country.

 

[Mud Rookie]

I am not getting new TB's... I am going to use the factory TB both front and rear that's why I am using both front and rear TB relocation brackets. I was told that I did not need to replace the stock TB's if I were to get both brackets......... and yes, I am getting the 4 inch RC kit. I was talking to the guys from PJF and they said that the front TB relocation bracket was not necessarily needed but it wouldn't hurt. Same for the pitman arm. Not necessarily needed but again wouldn't hurt plus I am getting a really good deal for the pitman arm. So my feeling is that if these 2 pieces of equipment won't hurt the lift if anything it may make it a little better then why not... As for the rear TB relocation bracket that was a must.....

So correct me if I am wrong please....

 

[2Greys]

If you don't get new adjustable trackbars need to either:
re drill the hole for the front TB or
put on a drop bracket and drop pitman arm (if you do the drop bracket you MUST get a DPA there is no option on that otherwise you introduce bumpsteer).
You do need the rear bracket though. When you tilt the rear pinion using an SYE it can cause binding and has been known to cause the bracket to tear off. The CV bracket allows puts the track bar back on the right angle
Personal opinion is get new Tracks bars but that is pricey option..

 

[bradleyfitz]

You are not wrong, but I don't think it's money well spent. I would pony up for an adjustable front trackbar instead of spending the $100 on the front drop bracket and pitman arm combo. You can accomplish the same thing as the front drop bracket by re-drilling the mounting hole on the front axle...

Edit: Damn Chris, you beat me by a minute. What he said too.

 

[Mud Rookie]

I thought about that after the fact that I already bought the front and rear TB relocation brackets... So instead of doing the whole " return thing " back to the Ebay customer that I bought the brackets from I am simply going to use them . I actually got both brackets including shipping for just under $60 and the DPA is only $55 from PJF4x4..... Adjustable front and rear TB's are close to $300 plus on a very good day.... The relocation brackets with the stock TB's & DPA will work at least for now.....

Thanks guys,

 

[junkpile]

By the sounds of it everyone on here (with a TJ) is using aftermarket TB's so there should be a plethora of good used stock TB's available to choose from when yours wear out

 

[Kunker]

By the sounds of it everyone on here (with a TJ) is using aftermarket TB's so there should be a plethora of good used stock TB's available to choose from when yours wear out

The plethora of TJ's with aftermarket track bars shows that folks here tried the drop brackets/re-drilled mount, and found it didn't fix their death-wobble or other issues. Most of the advice is based on what did and didn't work for both Chris and Brad, and what they would have done different the second go around.

My 2 cents.

 

[Mud Rookie]

So what is the PRO and CON of using the stock TB with a TB relocation bracket and or an aftermarket adjustable TB ? Doesn't the relocation brackets do the same job. Instead of adjusting the TB to the proper length, the re locators simply adjusts the positioning of the housing to accommodate the stock length of the TB.... ? right ?

 

[dwcjwerfner]

Umm I would take TB relocation over adjustable any day, the problem with lifting is bad track bar and steering linkage angle. Isn't as flat as possible the most important thing on track bar as then there is less arc to be traveled under suspension action? I see the TB relocation as flattening the angle back out. An adjustable track bar only makes it reach better? Oh and I had an adjustable track and relocated my track bar as well.
Somebody correct me if I am wrong. :flipoff:

 

[2Greys]

To clarify a bit more of what Dwayne is saying:
You should be able to draw two lines one between the the track bar holes and one between the tie rod and there should be a a 0 degree difference between. They dont have to be flat per se, they have to be parallel (although that is probably what you meant by flat). See picture (it is aftermarket steering but still stands with stock).

Dwayne you are both wrong and right. The reason for the Drop bracket is that when you lift it pulls the front axle over an inch or two to the driver side. The Drop bracket drops (duh) the track bar frame side position back to the original spot. Problem with doing that is then the two lines are no longer parallel so the DPA gets added which brings it back into line. An adjustable trackbar does the same thing because it is adjustable. The curves you see in most adjustable track bars are to deal with interference which has been seen with lower lifts (<4") and aftermarket diff covers.
One of the big mistakes is some of the lesser quality lifts will throw a DPA in but with no drop bracket so people will put it on without realizing the ramifications and are surprised why they get bump steer. When I got my TB (Currie TJJ), it wasn't because of the lift I had but because I had developed death wobble due to a bad TRE on the original. In this case I thought ahead and knew that I was going to be raising it an inch and the kit didn't come with a drop bracket and DPA and rather than drill a hole when I did I may as well get an adjustable.
The only real disadvantage I have heard about TB relocation brackets is it could cause extra strain on the existing mount and there have been cases of that mount being ripped off (remember it is technically a longer lever thus putting more stress on the attachment to the frame) and it is one more attachment you have to pay attention to and keep tight or risk wallowing out one of the holes. Also most of the good adjustable Track bars have JJs on the frame side which helps even more with articulation than a TRE. The disadvantage with most of them is you end up drilling out the frame side hole at a minimum because the bolts are bigger meaning you are setting yourself up to have to always buy the same or similar and can't go back to stock but then how often do you need to change your TB (and JJs are easily rebuildable).

 

[dwcjwerfner]

Actually you want your track bar as parallel to the ground as possible. your axle travels in an arc. If it is already down at a 45 degree angle when you start it is going to move sideways at a very fast angle as compared to 15 degree start point. I remembered that is why I used to have an adjustable and relocated my brackets.

 

[Kunker]

Both have valid points. Yes, you want the track bar to always be as flat as possible, so the relocation brackets are a good thing. As Dwayne said, if you start at a steeper angle, the axle will move further to the driver side faster with droop. Just imagine the arc that the end of the track bar will make as it swings down - the end of that arc is a fixed point on your axle that will cause it to move to one side. The flatter the TB at ride height, the less the axle will move laterally in up or down travel.

But you also need to have the track bar and draglink to be parallel, otherwise you are introducing bump steer. If the draglink (from the steering box to the tie-rod/knuckle) isn't parallel to the track bar, they actually fight/bind with each other as the axle moves since they don't travel in the same arc anymore, and the steering will be affected. Basically you will find the Jeep wandering when you hit bumps. Just like before, imagine the arc the DL will travel - if it doesn't match the TB throughout it's range of motion, something has to give. That something will be your steering - it will for the tie-rod in one direction or the other, and cause some steering. One thing to note, if your DL and TB aren't equal length as well as parallel, you will always get some amount of bump steer.

 

[Richard]

..., if your DL and TB aren't equal length as well as parallel, you will always get some amount of bump steer.

This is all you need to know, so if you change one, like put a drop bracket on the TB, then you need to change the other, install a drop pitman arm.

 

[bradleyfitz]

What everyone has said is correct

My only issue with this setup is if trying to save money, I would have simply re-drilled the Oem hole. At the end of the day, it will be the same as the drop bracket and drop pitman arm. Both setups may or may not work, because they are not adjustable. And you will not know until it's on the road. Further, springs sag. What is perfect today may not be perfect tomorrow.

 

[Mud Rookie]

You are guys are AWESOME.... God I love being a Jeep owner. I am so glad that you all know your stuff !!!!! Great opinions, advice, on what to do, what not to do and certain ways to save money..... I am starting to sound like a little girl. That' not cool.............. LOL !. Anyhow, I am going to stick with the stock front and rear TB and use a front and rear TB relocation bracket for each and use a DPA. Plus I already paid for all these parts so if I got them , then use them. Plus like I mentioned, I am having all this done by the guys at PJF4x4 meaning that it will be done buy pros who I hope really know there stuff. So anything to do with angles and percentages, degrees and positions will be totally left up to them. I really hope that when I get it back that there won't be any wobbles, bobbles, bump steer or vibrations.... Fingers cross that it drives as smoothly as it does now after the lift is installed.

If anyone has anything further to add please and I mean PLEASE feel free to do so. I am not bringing my RIG to PJF4x4 until Feb 18. So I can still make changes to it before dropping it off.

Thanks to all.