Shiny! Shiny good!
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My "Big Baby" Axle Swap thread
- Thread starter 2Greys
- Start date
Thanks Marek and Dwayne!
One of the things I got earlier was a Crush Sleeve Eliminator I got from Ratech. I figured rather than futz with a crush sleeve it would be way easier to use a Crush Sleeve Eliminator. From what I have read on the intertubes, they are big in the drag racing scene since the preload never changes which would happen with the crush sleeve as it would loosen a bit.
Here is a picture of the spacer and the shims behind it
You can kind of tell that the spacer is a tad shy shorter than the crush sleeve that was in diff.
Here are the instructions that came with it:
Long story short you add enough shims so that it is taller than the old crush sleeve and then start removing 2 though at a time of shims until you get adequate pinion preload. They were nice enough to give you a chart at the top so you don't do that math stuff.
Basically my crush sleeve is 0.440 thick and the spacer is 0.415. I figure start at 0.442 which is 0.028 worth of shims (yes the math is wrong) which according to the charts is
1x 0.012
1x 0.016
worth of shims.
You then remove 2 thou at a time until you get in the right area.
One of the things I got earlier was a Crush Sleeve Eliminator I got from Ratech. I figured rather than futz with a crush sleeve it would be way easier to use a Crush Sleeve Eliminator. From what I have read on the intertubes, they are big in the drag racing scene since the preload never changes which would happen with the crush sleeve as it would loosen a bit.
Here is a picture of the spacer and the shims behind it
You can kind of tell that the spacer is a tad shy shorter than the crush sleeve that was in diff.
Here are the instructions that came with it:
Long story short you add enough shims so that it is taller than the old crush sleeve and then start removing 2 though at a time of shims until you get adequate pinion preload. They were nice enough to give you a chart at the top so you don't do that math stuff.
Basically my crush sleeve is 0.440 thick and the spacer is 0.415. I figure start at 0.442 which is 0.028 worth of shims (yes the math is wrong) which according to the charts is
1x 0.012
1x 0.016
worth of shims.
You then remove 2 thou at a time until you get in the right area.
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So after about 1 hour and 45 minutes I pulled the ring out of the oven. The wife wasn't impressed as I used her oven mitts to do it. 
I actually pulled out about 15 minutes earlier (yeah prematurely it happens to everyone...or so I hear I swear!!) and it was still too tight to fit on. Threw it back in the oven and the next time I pulled it out it literally fell into place. I threw a couple bolts on to make sure it doesn't shift.
Yeah I did this in our dining room. Too bloody cold to do it in the garage. I swear that copper tubing is going to be the death of me. I ended up unbending it and making a big loop outside the carrier to get it out of the way.
Decided to throw it into the diff to see how it looked. I then threw it in the right way when I realized I put it in backwards
(oops).
Once that was done, I decided it was time to kick back and relax for the night and poured a stiff one.
Need to get started on the regearing and get this axle done my office is getting cramped.
I actually pulled out about 15 minutes earlier (yeah prematurely it happens to everyone...or so I hear I swear!!) and it was still too tight to fit on. Threw it back in the oven and the next time I pulled it out it literally fell into place. I threw a couple bolts on to make sure it doesn't shift.
Yeah I did this in our dining room. Too bloody cold to do it in the garage. I swear that copper tubing is going to be the death of me. I ended up unbending it and making a big loop outside the carrier to get it out of the way.
Decided to throw it into the diff to see how it looked. I then threw it in the right way when I realized I put it in backwards
Once that was done, I decided it was time to kick back and relax for the night and poured a stiff one.
Need to get started on the regearing and get this axle done my office is getting cramped.
I have a racheting tube bender and (I think) some springs if you need to work that copper. I usually do 1/4 by hand tho.
Thanks!
The front ARB was fine it was the same type of pip and there are no real sharp corners, the concern I have is with the hard lines for the rear axle with the truss. Each one has at least 2 90 degree angle and they are only 3/16. May have you come over when I need to get them done.
The front ARB was fine it was the same type of pip and there are no real sharp corners, the concern I have is with the hard lines for the rear axle with the truss. Each one has at least 2 90 degree angle and they are only 3/16. May have you come over when I need to get them done.
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Installed all the ring gear bolts and torqued to 60 ftlbs. A lot quicker than when I was doing the Dana 30 since I figured out how to do it.
Got the outer pinion race in but the inner keeps going in uneven. Going to put the race in the freezer over night and see if it goes in easier tomorrow
One of the things mentioned in the ARB manual is that it to check where the drain slots are where the axle tubes meet the pumpkin. On the passenger side there is only one and it was at the top. I made a small matching slot on the bottom spot as recommended in the manual.
When I pulled out the old carrier there was only two thick shims on the outside between each bearing race and the pumpkin. Their measurements were
Passenger: 0.268
Driver: 0.273
To find the carrier shim measurements I put them back in as well as the ARB as per step 4 in Bill's gear doc.
Interestingly I couldn't get a screwdriver nor even 0.010 shim in between the washer and the ARB. In the picture below you can see this ridge on the outside of the housing for the air intake. That ridge does not let you push it until it touches the side. There is probably about a 100 thou gap.
So I think what I may do is try to recreate the thick washers using shims with an extra 0.005 on each side to act as preload and see how that works.
Got the outer pinion race in but the inner keeps going in uneven. Going to put the race in the freezer over night and see if it goes in easier tomorrow
One of the things mentioned in the ARB manual is that it to check where the drain slots are where the axle tubes meet the pumpkin. On the passenger side there is only one and it was at the top. I made a small matching slot on the bottom spot as recommended in the manual.
When I pulled out the old carrier there was only two thick shims on the outside between each bearing race and the pumpkin. Their measurements were
Passenger: 0.268
Driver: 0.273
To find the carrier shim measurements I put them back in as well as the ARB as per step 4 in Bill's gear doc.
Interestingly I couldn't get a screwdriver nor even 0.010 shim in between the washer and the ARB. In the picture below you can see this ridge on the outside of the housing for the air intake. That ridge does not let you push it until it touches the side. There is probably about a 100 thou gap.
So I think what I may do is try to recreate the thick washers using shims with an extra 0.005 on each side to act as preload and see how that works.
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So I pressed on the pinion bearing with a new 0.012 shim. Guess it is a good enough start
Also went through the new carrier shims. The interesting thing about them is that there are 4 thick shims; 2 at .112 and 2 at .104. The interesting part is the .112 have an inner lip that thinner shims can sit on. I think what this means is that I can use the dead blow method to get them in. Using the measurements for the old thick shims, I set up two separate groups with an extra 0.006 on each side. Once I have the inner race in and the pinion mounted I can then see if I have to adjust any either way.
Also went through the new carrier shims. The interesting thing about them is that there are 4 thick shims; 2 at .112 and 2 at .104. The interesting part is the .112 have an inner lip that thinner shims can sit on. I think what this means is that I can use the dead blow method to get them in. Using the measurements for the old thick shims, I set up two separate groups with an extra 0.006 on each side. Once I have the inner race in and the pinion mounted I can then see if I have to adjust any either way.
Most common ARB/ZIP lockers problems stem from not enough preload on the carrier bearings. You using a case spreader Chris??
I picked up a case spreader earlier and used it with the Dana 30 since most of the issues with the ARB and Dana 30 is the lack of preload. I had figured out the maximum space and add an extra 10 thou.
With the ARB for the 8.8 it looks the design is different. That in mind I am still adding an extra 12 thou on top of the max space.
My diff spreader won't work with the 8.8 unless I get some special brackets fabricated. I had emailed Mike Lorint about it and he can make them I just have to send him the specs. But I was going to try the dead blow first.
Since I am at the whim of Mother Nature I have basically the next month to regear it so no rush (until end of March then it is super rush time)
In the meantime I went out this morning and got the inner race in.
With the ARB for the 8.8 it looks the design is different. That in mind I am still adding an extra 12 thou on top of the max space.
My diff spreader won't work with the 8.8 unless I get some special brackets fabricated. I had emailed Mike Lorint about it and he can make them I just have to send him the specs. But I was going to try the dead blow first.
Since I am at the whim of Mother Nature I have basically the next month to regear it so no rush (until end of March then it is super rush time)
In the meantime I went out this morning and got the inner race in.
Nutted up (pardon the pun) and decided to use the old pinion nut. I got the pinion on with no slop but definitely needs more shims removed (remember I got a crush sleeve eliminator). I am sitting right now with the spacer plus 22 thou.
Think I am going to need to get the adapters fabricated for my diff spreader. I tried to get the ARB in with an extra 15 thou of shims for preload and tried to get it in using dead blow method but couldn't get it to work. I tried with deadblow on the ARB but the shims would shift underneath and I tried with tapping the shims in but it would get about half way in and then the ARB would become very stiff. This was even with it down to 6 thou extra.
Think I am going to need to get the adapters fabricated for my diff spreader. I tried to get the ARB in with an extra 15 thou of shims for preload and tried to get it in using dead blow method but couldn't get it to work. I tried with deadblow on the ARB but the shims would shift underneath and I tried with tapping the shims in but it would get about half way in and then the ARB would become very stiff. This was even with it down to 6 thou extra.
So I went out and put in the ARB. Things I noticed and need to do:
- add an extra 2 thou of shims to the carrier, it didn't take as much oomph as I expected it would need. With 5 though it was a tad tight for a deadblow
- I got about 5 thou of backlash so I need to move some from the Ring Gear side. Need to figure out how much that is. The manual says 6-10 is ideal so according to Bill the movement is 0.007 for every 0.010. If I move 0.005 I should then in theory be around 0.007-0.008. Probably not the most efficient way to do it but it seems to work.
- Pinion depth is horridly shallow using the same size shim as what came stock (0.012), manual suggested starting point of 0.026, maybe I will follow what it recommends. What a concept.
- something else I found was it is way easier putting the ARB in with the axle in it's natural state than having the pumpkin pointing straight up (Pinion straight down)
Oh here is the picture ECGS sent me of how they run their brake line kit:
- add an extra 2 thou of shims to the carrier, it didn't take as much oomph as I expected it would need. With 5 though it was a tad tight for a deadblow
- I got about 5 thou of backlash so I need to move some from the Ring Gear side. Need to figure out how much that is. The manual says 6-10 is ideal so according to Bill the movement is 0.007 for every 0.010. If I move 0.005 I should then in theory be around 0.007-0.008. Probably not the most efficient way to do it but it seems to work.
- Pinion depth is horridly shallow using the same size shim as what came stock (0.012), manual suggested starting point of 0.026, maybe I will follow what it recommends. What a concept.
- something else I found was it is way easier putting the ARB in with the axle in it's natural state than having the pumpkin pointing straight up (Pinion straight down)
Oh here is the picture ECGS sent me of how they run their brake line kit:
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So here is the first real pattern. I had to go up to about 0.041 (starting is 0.026 according to manufacturer)
Driver side shim .256
Passenger shim .288
Think the pinion still needs to go a bit deeper looking at the drive side.
This looked like a pretty decent pattern/pinion depth to me, maybe just move the ring over a bit tighter if anything?
Dropped the pinion depth to 0.031. Drive side looks better but it still looks a tad high against the top of the tooth.
I wish I could do a decent pattern but it is hard with no axles in to give it some load. I have been using a piece of 1x3 wood to give some resistance but even then.
I think it is acceptable but want a second (or even third) opinion
I wish I could do a decent pattern but it is hard with no axles in to give it some load. I have been using a piece of 1x3 wood to give some resistance but even then.
I think it is acceptable but want a second (or even third) opinion
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